The cunning plan is to allow iPhone users to send cash to other iPhone users so that they can buy more Apple gear and get themselves deeper into debt with their friends rather than the banks.

The company has recently held discussions with payments industry partners about introducing its own Venmo competitor, according to multiple sources familiar with the talks. The service would allow iPhone owners to send money digitally to other iPhone owners, these people said.

The new service is expected later this year, although some Apple deep throats have warned that the company still has not made up its mind.

Another cautioned that an announcement and launch date may not yet be set.

Part of the problem is that once again Apple is showing up at the banks and telling them about a service it is setting up and expecting them to nod their heads and do what they are told.

Apple previously held talks with banks about such a service back in 2015 but did not end up launching anything because the banks told it to go forth and multiply.

The reason is obvious. The new Apple product would compete with offerings from big US banks as well as PayPal, its millennial-popular subsidiary Venmo, as well as Square Cash in the increasingly competitive world of digital money-transfers. Chase’s QuickPay service processed $28 billion in transfers last year, while Venmo registered $17.6 billion in volume and is still doubling year over year.

In short, Apple is arriving on the scene too late and expecting to boss people about and the banks are saying no. The banks see these services have typically been money losers for  new entrants in the space, but are the gateway to the next generation of payment and personal finance services that could upend traditional consumer banking relationships.

Apple is desperate to prop up its Apple Pay service. Apple Pay which was launched with much fanfare is not getting the sort of use that Apple or its reluctant banking partners expected.

Long-time Apple analyst Gene Munster recently told the Wall Street Journal that he estimates Apple saw $36 billion in 2016 Apple Pay transactions, well below his original prediction of $207 billion.

If Apple pushes through this Venmo style service, backed with its own debit card, it could hack off the bankers even more. Visa has been named as one of Jobs’ Mob’s partners and it is possible that the banks could pressure Visa into not working with Apple. It would be too much competition.